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Jesus Christ

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#1   2017-11-27 11:30          
Hi guys.

We're getting to a point where SLR is officially dying, not enough new modders picking the game up and no one wants to spend time on it. And with that SLR communities like VStanced are slowly dying out.. as I'm sure many can see by the sites activity.

Now we've got a good thing going, we've got people interested in cars and car games.

but WHERE should we go from here.. ? My current idea is to turn VStanced into a forum which will allow us to continue discussing SLR and working with it(those that still do) while have the option to easily expand into other games(NFS, Assetto Corsa etc etc)

So what do you think? what do you think we should do and where should the site go from here?

We do need a refresh so any opinions are WELCOME.
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#2   2017-11-27 13:03          
Damn thats sad to hear.. but what do you mean by forum? explain how its gonna look and work, please

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Jesus Christ

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#3   2017-11-27 13:20          
there will be no front "end" or news or anything just a basic forums with topics/subtopics and threads inside :)
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holeecrab

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#4   2017-11-27 13:26          
i'd say keep the front end to put some news and stuff, i remembered some nfs game having more smaller modding scene than us yet they still do updating their frontend

But i'll support if you expand the forum into other games as well, but the other side it'll makes the website to be more generic and clustered, making the users less interested.... Unless the website were gone full neogaf and shit lol

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#5   2017-11-27 13:26          
@jc - And how do you think thats gonna make it better?

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#6   2017-11-27 13:29          
Honestly i'd rather go the stanceworks way, a front end and a full forum, separated one from the other. I think it'll be good. Hope so..
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Daniel

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#7   2017-11-27 13:36          
Hasn't the forum always been "open" to other games? I mean, there is sections for Forza, NFS and whatnot..

But they're all pretty dead. And now SLRR is almost dead too.

"Spiritually, everything should be turbocharged" - Turbo Yoda.

Jesus Christ

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#8   2017-11-27 14:51          
forum has been open indeed, the main reason for going forum only is security/updates etc.

current CMS is out of date, full of holes and security issues - know how bad we get it with bots ?

so my goal is to go with something up-to-date yet simple enough to manage.

but what would be our selling point/unique bit? Stanceworks works because of what they do, we do not do all that aka take pictures, have exclusive real world car builds etc etc.

our focus should be on community/getting people involved and modding games/showing off their virtual rides etc. But we need to move away from SLR and focus a bit more on other games, we do have the sections in forum for NFS etc but they're all a bit dead and hidden/forgotten and that is because we're seen as "SLR" only site
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#9   2017-11-27 19:05          
I think SLR:R is not dying, but yet fading, into irrelevance.

It's a perfectly good topic for a whole website, but it seems reasonable that you should start to increase the prominence of other games on the site?
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#10   2017-11-27 20:04          
@JC if you think thats the only way of refreshing people and ideas then sure go for it why not?
I know that people get used to changes pretty tough but idk as far as you think it will work and won't put a "once and for all" stop to the "fading" SLRR scene.... :/
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skip

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#11   2017-11-27 20:22          
If it is gonna be re-made, can there be some form of notification system? Like if someone "quotes" you or replied to your thread. Being able to enable and disable notifications on your thread too would be good.

I shouldn't get my hopes up :/.

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#12   2017-11-27 20:43          
^that would be dope

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Snowyy

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#13   2017-11-27 21:43          
well, I'd say that SLRR is slowly, but surely dying.
As of the future of this site, I like skip's idea.
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Holy Shit Man

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#14   2017-11-27 21:49          
Front end is needed, with news about mod releases and gaming world.

However, I reckon that VS should also open to real world scene too with the kind of articles you see on sites like Stanceworks etc. Connecting both worlds should help spreading VS among people, especially when you made many cool coverages from meetings already - just give them some text and you're ready to go ;)

skip

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#15   2017-11-27 22:06          
If we connected Vstanced with SLRR 2.3.1 it would get more popular, if anything it isn't really dying. People are still buying 2.3.1 and that means they'll need somewhere to go. This doesn't make much sense but......someone probably catches my drift?

lowkey surprised people like my idea

Jesus Christ

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#16   2017-11-28 09:39          
# skip : If it is gonna be re-made, can there be some form of notification system? Like if someone "quotes" you or replied to your thread. Being able to enable and disable notifications on your thread too would be good.

I shouldn't get my hopes up :/.

If we go ahead with new forum etc this will be part of it for sure. We need that big time.

# ALAN : Front end is needed, with news about mod releases and gaming world.

However, I reckon that VS should also open to real world scene too with the kind of articles you see on sites like Stanceworks etc. Connecting both worlds should help spreading VS among people, especially when you made many cool coverages from meetings already - just give them some text and you're ready to go ;)

my plan was -;

front end would be blog only style, no chat/forums etc on the front just updates/news etc.
forums/articles/download page would contain the rest, place to chat, download, teach etc.

I do go to plenty of shows in uk so covering them is not an issue for sure :)

# skip : If we connected Vstanced with SLRR 2.3.1 it would get more popular, if anything it isn't really dying. People are still buying 2.3.1 and that means they'll need somewhere to go. This doesn't make much sense but......someone probably catches my drift?

lowkey surprised people like my idea

2.3.1 and VStanced will never go together, 2.3.1 is against everything SLR ever stood for aka free, community driven, moddable and accessible. This has been taken by a good modder/game dev and being resold with ideas grabbed from community and other modders.
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doge

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#17   2017-11-28 10:29          
i can help with front page pics :) im in

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MACKAY

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#18   2017-11-28 13:06          
If VS will be doing articles about real life builds I am down to help, first volunteer for writing !

Jesus Christ

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#19   2017-11-28 13:10          
great! thank you :)

so I assume something similar layout to Stanceworks website and forum would float everyones boat? :)
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ShadowTuner

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#20   2017-11-28 13:14          
I probably gonna get a shitload of hate for this but fuck it.

SLRR died/ is dieing thanks to stuck up modders who keep their mods for them self and a select group of friends who brag about the mods like if they are pure gold. Not just that ofc, add up the amount of small modders who try ( wich for my respect, i couldnt even make a paintjob if i wanted to ) to make mods cuz they want to keep all of this alive but get shot down in the comment section for their "not so good mods".

imo those to things distroyed this once so awsome community. My knowledge on 'behind the screens' forum setups and stuff is to low to understand what you guys wanna do to revive it all but just from a player who loved using the mods point of view, i think one of the things you guys need to do is just throw everything online, it prevents leaks simply cuz why leak a public mod? It will draw people back to the game cuz i think i can speak for alot of people when i say: this " my mod is sjpesjal, i want it only for me and nobody else" crap pushed alot of people away.
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Jesus Christ

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#21   2017-11-28 13:16          
# ShadowTuner : I probably gonna get a shitload of hate for this but fuck it.

SLRR died/ is dieing thanks to stuck up modders who keep their mods for them self and a select group of friends who brag about the mods like if they are pure gold. Not just that ofc, add up the amount of small modders who try ( wich for my respect, i couldnt even make a paintjob if i wanted to ) to make mods cuz they want to keep all of this alive but get shot down in the comment section for their "not so good mods".

imo opinion those to things distroyed this once so awsome community. My knowledge on 'behind the screens' forum setups and stuff is to low to understand what you guys wanna do to revive it all but just from a player who loved using the mods i think one of the things you guys need to do is just throw everything online, it prevents leaks simply cuz why leak a public mod? It will draw people back to the game cuz i think i can speak for alot of people when i say: this " my mod is sjpesjal, i want it only for me and nobody else" crap pushed alot of people away.

I agree with you but fuck all we can do about it, it seems to be in humans nature to make themselves feel special and keep shit :) I always said, sharing is caring when it comes to things like SLR. But you tell that to majority of people who learn to mod a little and then feel like special stars and refuse to share.

but as said, nothing can be done about that.

all our modders have been constantly motivated to share and ignore shitty comments :) everyone is happy with feedback but hey, that's how the internet and these communities work.
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ShadowTuner

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#22   2017-11-28 13:22          
# Jesus Christ : I agree with you but fuck all we can do about it, it seems to be in humans nature to make themselves feel special and keep shit :) I always said, sharing is caring when it comes to things like SLR. But you tell that to majority of people who learn to mod a little and then feel like special stars and refuse to share.

but as said, nothing can be done about that.

all our modders have been constantly motivated to share and ignore shitty comments :) everyone is happy with feedback but hey, that's how the internet and these communities work.

I understand, not saying all modders are like that but i remeber a huge shitstorm a year or 2 ago about this and the days after that i saw people disapear wich deactivated their accounts or just simply went radio silent.

The only thing you guys can do is just one guy to step up and throw some mods online in the hopes of others to follow.

I download every mod that gets released on here, no matter if it's good or bad. It's just my way to say thank you to the modder.
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#23   2017-11-28 13:29          
I think even if the 2.3.1 is angaist what we like it esily can be the future of the comunity so supporting these newbies will be a nice way of growing and i also bet that with a time and looking what we have on the 2.2.1 and even 2.30 they could migrate for the Free versions.so i support skip idea because of this.Also if a yone ever wondered about a remake, on the past i sent some e mails for thr invictus guys asking for something about slrr. And they answer was that actually they would love to continue the saga. And create a new game but activisio got the rights and they didnt support the idea so they were with hands tied. So killing any hope that the original developers wont support the 2.3.1 is a nice chance of growing the comunity and keeping the game alive.
Or maybe we could look the good things that we got in all those custom versions of the game compile they in one and to fight the 2.3.1 and the way he changed the game conception relase on Steam as a Free Game and include the moding support we already have. These are my taughts about slrr future (and vstanced) and the comunity.

Added 4 minutes later:

# MACKAY : If VS will be doing articles about real life builds I am down to help, first volunteer for writing !

I can try to show some real life builds that i find on brazil and try to make some car meet coverages
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#24   2017-11-28 13:41          
But many mods are getting 1000+ downloads still and we always have 200+ guests on the site maybe its not that dead yet..

I dont think it was ever higher than it is now(since i joined in 2014).. only modders have gone a bit silent

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RedCarDriver

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#25   2017-11-28 14:01          
One of the more persistent issues is simply that most modders basically get too old for the scene and leave just as they're getting good. That's a reality of life, though, and there's not really anything that can be done about it.

What is happening now that is new, though, is that there are not as many new modders coming in from elsewhere.

Here's my advice on this: the tutorial section of the site could probably get a revamp to be a little more interconnected, like a wiki, instead of being put up in big solid blocks that single page authors own. This might help reduce the barriers to learning how to mod.



About VIP mods:

Obviously it doesn't help with every other case of this if I say so, but - I'd like to remind everyone that my mods are not VIP. Many of them are simply not done yet.

The R33, in particular, is pretty close to being done, but is also my active development platform for new things (i.e. the analog odometer) and is easily the most complicated mod I have ever made. My goal with the R33 has been to make a car mod that demonstrates everything SLRR can accomplish, and I think I've done pretty well on that front so far - but quality takes time. I've also got a few unannounced projects in the works.

In the meantime, everything else in my life hasn't left me with a lot of time for SLRR, but it is still on my mind enough of the time that I've continued to make stuff for it.



There's also another uncomfortable aspect of this situation: car games are arguably slowly dying, just as the gasoline-powered, human-driven car slowly dies. We may be in the sunset days of the automotive hobby. My opinion is that it's therefore worthwhile to start moving to an archivist role, trying to remember and capture everything that made all of this worth our time, rather than simply trying to act like it's as alive as ever.

This post was edited by RedCarDriver (2017-11-28 14:10, 447 days ago)

Jesus Christ

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#26   2017-11-28 14:58          
# doge : But many mods are getting 1000+ downloads still and we always have 200+ guests on the site maybe its not that dead yet..

I dont think it was ever higher than it is now(since i joined in 2014).. only modders have gone a bit silent

yeah the numbers have increased, but you gotta keep in mind that many are lurkers or simply there for a few seconds because "vstanced" is all over the place also thanks to the uploader the name is being spread out even more.

# RedCarDriver : One of the more persistent issues is simply that most modders basically get too old for the scene and leave just as they're getting good. That's a reality of life, though, and there's not really anything that can be done about it.

What is happening now that is new, though, is that there are not as many new modders coming in from elsewhere.

Here's my advice on this: the tutorial section of the site could probably get a revamp to be a little more interconnected, like a wiki, instead of being put up in big solid blocks that single page authors own. This might help reduce the barriers to learning how to mod.



About VIP mods:

Obviously it doesn't help with every other case of this if I say so, but - I'd like to remind everyone that my mods are not VIP. Many of them are simply not done yet.

The R33, in particular, is pretty close to being done, but is also my active development platform for new things (i.e. the analog odometer) and is easily the most complicated mod I have ever made. My goal with the R33 has been to make a car mod that demonstrates everything SLRR can accomplish, and I think I've done pretty well on that front so far - but quality takes time. I've also got a few unannounced projects in the works.

In the meantime, everything else in my life hasn't left me with a lot of time for SLRR, but it is still on my mind enough of the time that I've continued to make stuff for it.



There's also another uncomfortable aspect of this situation: car games are arguably slowly dying, just as the gasoline-powered, human-driven car slowly dies. We may be in the sunset days of the automotive hobby. My opinion is that it's therefore worthwhile to start moving to an archivist role, trying to remember and capture everything that made all of this worth our time, rather than simply trying to act like it's as alive as ever.

good post. I agree with with most of it, I don't believe that cars/automotive games are dying in anyway, I believe they're turning more "simple" from a customers POV but then again games like car mechanic sim show that there is still market for people who want to faf around and spend hours ripping things apart in virtual world.

growing up is what took me of SLR too. I love the game but I simply have other things I'd rather do in my free time, it still involves cars but not SLR.
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thyago95

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#27   2017-11-28 15:38          
In my opinion is that the old modders stop do mods for many reasons(time,don't like play anymore, get bored of the game because already know the most things etc) and don't exist many modders because don't is a simple game or they are lazy
About the private mods don't think is the biggest problem at least now, some times some guys think wip and vip is the same
Maybe a site like jc said, about cars and others cars games

skip

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#28   2017-11-28 16:50          
Don't know who said it but in depth tutorials on converting cars etc would be helpful. I know that if there was a good tutorial on converting cars I would have by now, it's just I don't know how to. It's taken me ages to learn how to make mods properly and even now I still don't know how to make a rim paintable.

I might have misunderstood but changing the focus of vStanced to just irl cars would kinda defeat the point of the V in the name. I'm all for expansion and stuff but changing the focus to only irl.....idk.
Btw GTA S.A. would be a good start point.

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#29   2017-11-28 17:07          
Its not easy to convert car it would be hours long tutorial

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yurisminator

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#30   2017-11-28 17:25          
I never saw this place as a SLR only community, to be honest i havent really played SLR since i hooked up with remco, and that made me more active here then i ever was.

Ive seen this with pixel cars too, times change and people change, with pixel cars we couldnt revive that shit even if we wanted with that crappy android game now. What made pixel cars special was that you created something that was a reflection of you, now you can just open up your phone and slab together a few mis matched parts in 15 mins and ur done. same with modding i guess, but today theres so much social media n shit we dont need it.

And lol VIP mods.. Dont get me started.. Theres a reason for this, the same reason i dont share my paint work often. I dont want to my shit to be on every gta car out there. Even not sharing my shit stopped that, gta modders have retraced pictures of my designs to recreate them ... LIKE WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK ...

But im not gonna stop visiting here even if just big boss and doge left on the forum.

Dunno im not high enough to come up with anything smart to say today.


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doge

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#31   2017-11-28 17:34          
I'm not planing on leaving soon i've been checking this forum everday since 2014... :doge:

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#32   2017-11-28 17:35          
I agree, we need some more real life stuff too but it shouldn't take over the forum completely. As you can see in the photography thread i go to many different events so i could write something about them too! Also GTA SA should get some more attention for sure because it's just like SLRR, an old game where you can do pretty much anything. :D
# Jesus Christ : I love the game but I simply have other things I'd rather do in my free time, it still involves cars but not SLR.
Well that's why modders don't make mods anymore, but some of them are still active here. And there's enough of them to remake the tutorial section like everyone suggested, that will really make it easier for everyone to learn modding.

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#33   2017-11-28 18:33          
Apart from the fact that San Andreas is pretty much dead too I can make many tutorials for it, even a complete car conversion guide

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#34   2017-11-28 21:55          
Even if you get the grasp of modding, it can still be a bit complicated to explain.
A written tutorial would be a good idea, but it'd require to be pretty specific, because SLRR doesn't like vague stuff.
As for whatever shitty single-minute converts I do, I plan to shove them out simply because I don't see why I shouldn't.

Added 1 minute later:

Also, roleplaying seems to be getting the most attention, so maybe like, a more unique forum section for roleplaying would be lovely.
Perhaps with an automatic V$ counter if possible.

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#35   2017-11-28 22:57          
# doge : Its not easy to convert car it would be hours long tutorial

A proper but informative tutorial into modding the game would be more inviting to "wannabe" modders, even if its a few hours worth of content, there are numerous tutorials on how to 3D model parts so why not ?

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#36   2017-11-28 23:45          
I visit vstanced also at least every 2 days to check what's going on. The Problem with SLRR modding (or Assetto Corsa modding too) is getting into it, learning the basics is hard for new dudes and real short tutorials aren't out.
Example: tried changing out wheels in Assetto Corsa, watched the only 2 tutorials that are out there, did it by step and ran in errors. Didn't have any troubleshooting checklist, neither a dude I could ask. Tried asking around 3 corners for it and another user had to do it for me, still have no idea what went wrong and how to do it right. A simple checklist and tutorial (or the simplest you can go) for basic stuff with possible errors and fixes would be very great.

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#37   2017-11-28 23:51          
Some quality tutorials are a Extremely nice way to keep the game growing. I can do some parts scripting tutorials soon so i thinl for the site update a nice tutorial are is a MUST
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Jesus Christ

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#38   2017-11-28 23:57          
I think the complexity of it is what stops people from doing tutorials. Harrison did start one on the old wiki on gom team who then killed it for no reason and he never got back to it.

but I think anyone looking at that tutorial will simply be overwhelmed and run away.

Plus I can see the VIP mods turning into more of a thing.. I personally have been of it for so long that I doubt I could do a tutorial without spending a good few days refreshing my memory :) but focus is not that, focus is to get a good base site going not the bits that will be in it.
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pt
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http://slrrportugal.forumeiros.eu/
Location: Portugal
Occupation:
Age: 23
V$:
#39   2017-11-29 00:18          
the game is too complex for news ones and some times to the olders too and that demotivates people, is that what i think

saletl

jp
Posts: 422

Location: Japan RP Osaka
Occupation: yes
Age:
V$:
#40   2017-11-29 00:22          
my five cents...
The question might be, where vstanced should go.
If you want a nice lookin' page with a frontend that shares daily Info or pix or whatever and set the forum to a section you might see you get less new users than might be right now. Because... why shell I join a comunity if I could download or watch all the infos I need in other sections?

As you notice I'm new to vs and slrr. What got me checking this forum was that I wanted to download a special car and had to register. So I also checked what's goin on here which, at the end brought more fun with slrr as just having a car game running on my shitty work laptop...

So my conclution would be. Get a up to date look but keep the system. Maybe move even more info to the forum sections. Like tutorials etc.

I see that some mods are not that active any more, so maybe you should think about getting new ones for some sections.

And as mentioned before... there is car mechanic sim, and people mod this as well.